Srebrenica, Fledelius og Weiss

De islam og muhammedaner venlige medier har de seneste par dage været fyldt med historier om de stakkels muhammedaner, der holdt Srebrenica som en fæstning. I følge propaganda pressen skulle op mod 8.000 muhammedanske mænd være omkommet i forbindelse med den serbiske befrielsesaktion mod byen, som forgik tilbage i 1995.

I dansk sammenhæng har man igen trukket den afskyelig Bithe Weiss ud af den stald hvor hun står og formulder, med henvisning til, at hun var vidne, i en sag mod en af de serbiske forsvarere, der versere ved det såkaldte Krigsforbrydelses Tribunal, ICTY, i Nederlandene. Med hensyn til hendes vidneudsagn så mistede dommeren i sagen, Orie, tålmodigheden med Weiss, idet sagen ikke handlede om Weiss, hvad Weiss syntes at mene, men om forbrydelser, hvor det via Weiss’ vidneudsagn viser sig hun kun har andenhåndes udsag fra, for det meste, områdets muhammedanere. Hendes forklaring for retten er dog interessant, udfra en vinkel om dansk samtids historie.

Man kan spørge sig selv, hvorfor hun overhovedet bliver ført som vidne af anklageren. Foklaringen er formentlig, at hun selv har lobbyeret kraftigt overfor anklagemyndigheden, for at kunne bruge vidneskranken som talerstol for udspyelse af islamofil propaganda. Anklageren har selvfølgelig godt vidst, at et vidne af denne karakter, har gode muligheder for at irritiere dommeren og for den sags skyld forsvaret.

Fledelius, er om muligt i forhold til Weiss, en endnu mere bizar karakter. På DDR har han som såkaldt ekspert, foreslået, at man som en fredsskabende tvangsforanstaltning i området, indførte et nyt sprog, vidst nok kaldet, bosnoserbokroatisk. Sprogene var alligevel stort set det samme, mener Fledelius. Og på UH undre vi os over, hvorfor han ikke bare foreslår arabisk.

Og vi minder om hvad “sagen” drejer sig om: Nemlig om Serberne i deres nedkæmpelse af muhammedanske terrorister/illegale kombetanter agerede unødvendigt hårdhændet (uproportionalt), med den følge at unødvendigt mange civile blev dræbt. Og på kommandør niveau, om man ligefrem har givet ordre til, at nakke så mange civile som muligt. Man skal i den forbindelse huske på, at de muhammedanske terrorister skjulte sig i blandt civile og bag Nederlandske FN-soldater.

Først lidt fra et Al-Ritzau telegram bragt hos JP.

Derfor kræver de bosniske serberne større selvstændighed i Republika Srpska over for Den Bosniske Føderation.

Det siger Birte Weiss (S), der som dansk indenrigsminister i 90’erne måtte modtage masser af bosniske flygtninge. Hun har skrevet to bøger – “Vanviddets vidner” med Karsten Fledelius og “Krigens arvinger”, og hun er æresborger i den bosniske by Kljuc.

– Den bosnisk serbiske del – Republika Srpska – har fået stadig mere og mere vidtgående selvstændighedsønsker. Alt det, der skal til, for at man kan komme tættere på EU, bliver traineret (forsinket). Det er Bosniens politiske tragedie, siger Birte Weiss.

Rusland har forhindret, at FN’s Sikkerhedsråd så massakren i Srebrenica som folkedrab, der er anerkendt af Den Internationale Krigsforbryderdomstol for eks-Jugoslavien og Den Internationale Domstol. Rusland har støttet serberne i tyve år, siger Birte Weiss.

Forsoning går gennem EU, hvor både Slovenien og Kroatien er medlemmer, mener hun.

– Serbien vil med og har udleveret politisk leder Radovan Karadzic og hærchef Ratko Mladic, som begge anklages for krigsforbrydelser ved Krigsforbryderdomstolen i Haag, siger hun, som selv har vidnet mod Mladic.

Til Birthe Weiss vidne udsagn, hvor vi starte med dommerens sammenbrud i tålmod og derefter går kronologisk frem fra begyndelsen. Hele vidne forklaringen her.

Page 5290

1             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Jeremy, the Chamber has some concern about the

 2     way in which this testimony goes and the questions.  We understood from

3     the 65 ter summary that the witness could, and as she did, testify about

4     the exhumation, but to ask the witness to give second, third, fourth-hand

 5     evidence on matters which she obtained, and I have no problem with her

6     work and the book, but of course was obtained in a setting for which we

 7     do not know to what extent all sides were heard, et cetera.  And to

 8     present that as evidence where we have quite a bit of direct evidence,

 9     that is of some concern to the Chamber, and the Chamber wonders what this

10     adds.  For example, that the policeman was very helpful in helping the

11     witness in obtaining her information.  I mean, if he would not have been

12     helpful or if he would have been someone else, I mean that’s all the

13     probative value of that how important the work may have been to inform

14     the public, but the probative value before this Court is limited if there

15     is any at all.

16             Would you please focus on matters of which the witness has

17     first-hand knowledge as the exhumation and the way in which bodies were

18     identified and that objects belonging to persons were identified rather

19     than to ask the witness to tell us about what she learned from others

20     about persons at a time where she was not present in the area.

21             Mrs. Weiss, I hope that you do understand that this does not in

22     any way mis-appreciate the importance of your work, but of course your

23     work in writing books is different from what we do in court, that that is

24     in an adversarial setting hearing the testimony of witnesses primarily

25     about what they observed, saw themselves.

Og fra begyndelsen… (p 5279)

7                           Examination by Mr. Jeremy:

8        Q.   Good morning, Mrs. Weiss.

9        A.   Good morning.

10        Q.   In a few sentences could you please provide an outline of your

11     professional background.

12        A.   Well, yes.  I am a trained journalist, and I supplemented that

13     education with studies of literature at Copenhagen university.  I was a

14     member of the Danish parliament for 25 years, which I served as a

15     minister for eight years, having different ministerial posts.  I was a

16     deputy chair of the Social Democratic Party for 12 years, and in 2001, I

17     decided to leave politics and go back to my original profession as a

18     journalist.

3        Q.   And focusing on your time as minister of the interior, was your

4     work connected to Bosnia-Herzegovina?

5        A.   Yes, it was, to a very great extent.  We received 20.000 Bosnian

 6     refugees in Denmark, and it was a major task for us both in terms of

 7     logistics but also, of course, in terms of politics.

8        Q.   And you mentioned that you left the ministry — your position as

9     minister of the interior in 1997.  Why did you leave your position at

10     that time?

11        A.   It had nothing to do with the Bosnian refugees or the policies

12     pursued in relation to them.  The reason was a more fundamental

13     disagreement concerning the long-term immigrant policy, disagreement

14     between the prime minister and myself, and for that reason the logical

15     consequence was that I left my post.

16        Q.   And very briefly, what was your position in respect to the

17     refugees at that time?

18        A.   I was in charge of a policy which was not to be too rigid as

19     regarded the reception of the refugees, and in addition to that I was to

20     pursue an inclusive policy concerning the integration of the refugees who

21     were given permit to stay in Denmark.

25        Q.   And briefly, what could you observe of Kljuc in November 1996?

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I can repeat my answer.  The

11     reason why the atmosphere was very ghost-like was that the majority of

12     the population had simply fled the town in 1992 and in — and in 1993 the

13     Muslim part of the population was thrown out, and later when the area was

14     recaptured, a major part of the Serb population fled the local area.

15             MR. JEREMY:

16        Q.   And what is the basis of the observations you’ve just made in

17     respect to Kljuc?

18        A.   Well, the basis was that in those days I moved around in the area

19     to a great extent with the Major Hadic, and I was shown several villages

20     in which there were basically not a single house intact, left intact.  I

21     was also shown how a number of mosques, I think there were about 12 or 13

22     of them in total, they had been destroyed.  And if I recall it correctly,

23     the number stated concerning the number of buildings destroyed in the

24     area, well, that number’s 6.387.

25        Q.   And approximately how many times have you been back to Kljuc

Page 5283

1     since you were there in November 1996, just roughly?

2        A.   Well, I couldn’t give you the exact figure, but it’s somewhere

3     between 12 and 15 times.

4        Q.   And where were you on the 8th of November, 1996?

5        A.   I was in Kljuc, as I said before.  I was there to — well, excuse

6     me, what was the question?  Could you repeat, please?

7        Q.   Where were you on the 8th of November, 1996?

8        A.   I was in Kljuc, and as I said, I was there to inaugurate the

9     buildings that had been donated by Denmark, and in this connection it

10     turned out that I was also involved in the exhumation of one of the local

11     mass graves, and I was involved in the identification of the remains of

12     part of the male population from the small town called Biljani, which

13     lies outside Kljuc.

14        Q.   And why were you involved with that exhumation?

15        A.   Well, on the trip down there from Denmark, we stopped over in

16     Bihac and I had meetings with the OTA and UNHCR, and I was indirectly

17     then invited to be the reliable witness from the outside who could then

18     afterwards tell about what went on over those days, and quite exactly as

19     I’ve been prepared to, the mayor, Hadic, he invited me to take part, and

20     of course I did this.

11             MR. JEREMY:

12        Q.   Mrs. Weiss, did you again visit Kljuc in July 1999?

13        A.   Yes.  I visited Kljuc, and this time I stayed for three weeks,

14     starting in July and finishing in August.

15        Q.   And why did you visit Kljuc at this time?

16        A.   I visited Kljuc because I had — it had been decided that I

17     should gather my impressions in the form of a book, and I went there to

18     try to provide additional material and primarily to confirm or disconfirm

19     a number of the both oral and written statements I’d heard about what had

20     happened in Biljani in the three years that had passed since 1996.

  1. Specifically, what was your book intended to be about?

23        A.   That was to be about two things:  First, a description of the

24     refugee conditions in Denmark, and I chose a very specific refugee group,

25     namely people who came from Bosnian Krajina and thus also Kljuc,

Page 5287

1     et cetera.  That was one purpose.

2             And the other purpose was to describe what they were flying from.

3     What were the events that took place that brought them to a foreign

4     country and what led to the fact that they couldn’t stay at home, in

 5     their home country.

20              “Police chief:[on video, ed.]  I told you that we found something — some

21     literature in the school, something that he had written.  We can show you

22     and you can read this.

23              “Karsten Fledelius:  You should show us some of the literary he

24     wrote.  We would be very interested in that.  What did he write?

25              “Police chief:  This is the document where you can see the

Page 5289

1     signature of Marko Samardzija.”

2             MR. JEREMY:

3        Q.   Mrs. Weiss, why was this footage recorded?

4        A.   Part of our stay in Kljuc at that time, it was a week, we were

5     followed by a Danish TV documentary crew who wanted to show how the work

6     with such a book took place, and this is the reason why we today have

7     some footage that shows the text of the documents — of the book.

8        Q.   The man in the video sat next to you with — with the beard, who

9     was that?

10        A.   Mr. Karsten Fledelius from the Copenhagen university.  He was

11     acting as an interpreter for me, and he’s also a co-author of the book.

12        Q.   And just in a few words, the other two men in the room, who were

13     they?

14        A.   The two other persons, the man at the end of the table is a local

15     police, chief of police, Dafic [as interpreted], and the uniformed police

16     officer to the right in the picture is Safaracic Smail [as interpreted]

17     is his first name.  And why I remember the names so well, these two

18     police officers were extremely helpful in relation to our work of

19     finding — finding Samardzija.

[dommerens tålmod…] fortsættelse:

Page 5291

1             Please proceed, Mr. Jeremy.

2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I simply answered the questions I

3     am asked, and I was asked about this and that was why I answered the

4     question.  But I’m willing to elaborate on everything that has to do with

5     the exhumation and identification procedure.

12             MR. JEREMY:  Your Honours, as noticed in our 65 ter summary,

13     this — this witness interviewed Marko Samardzija.  And that interview

14     followed shortly after the footage we just saw.  In that interview

15     certain documents are — were referred to by Marko Samardzija.  Those

16     documents we’ll now look at, and they were provided to this witness by

17     the police.

18             JUDGE ORIE:  What we then have is not a hunt for Mr. Samardzija,

19     but you will put documents to the witness, and you’ll ask questions about

20     what the witness learned herself from Mr. Samardzija during that

21     interview.

9        Q.   And very briefly, do you know what these documents [from mr. Marko Samardzija, ed.] were about?

10        A.   Yes.  I do not understand the original language, but they have

11     been translated for me, and they, very briefly, are about the necessity

12     if you’re a Serb in that local area of preparing for a showdown with the

13     Muslim part of the population.

14        Q.   Do you know who these documents were circulated to?

15        A.   Well, they were first and foremost sent to Marko Samardzija’s

16     soldiers.  He was a captain of the first degree, and it was a kind of a

17     message to his troops, but I’ve also been told that they were also

18     distributed to a slightly broader group locally.

19        Q.   And how do you know that?

20        A.   Marko Samardzija himself told me.

Og forklaringen om hvad Marko Samardzija har skrevet fortsætter der ud ad, og Weiss og Fledelius animositet er ganske klar.

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